Saturday, June 26, 2004
Dan: I saw 911
Brian: : I did as well!
Dan: some well made points?
Brian: : It made me a stiffer Republican
Brian: : I thought what he did to the war mother was very sad.
Dan: I think she wanted her story out there.
Dan: He did nothing
Dan: It was the war that did everything
Brian: : But provide the microphone.
Dan: so whats wrong with shedding a tear with the entire liberal majority?
Brian: : I cried in the beginning.
Brian: : Not the end.
Dan: She would cry whether that mic was there or not.
Brian: : I cried from when the sound started until when the pictures started.
Brian: : Then I remembered just how deep my hatred runs.
Dan: and I remembered how carried away I was
Dan: at how badly I wanted to blame ANYONE
Dan: and bomb the shit out of something
Brian: : I felt no pity at all when I saw the woman with her bombed out house.
Dan: nor did I
Brian: : I thought that was a good start, and that disproportional retaliation is the bedrock of American military doctrine.
Dan: i felt pity when I saw our soldiers dying
Brian: : That America would not exist today if we did not use disproportionate retaliation.
Brian: : And that Kerry has the balls to do it if push comes to shove.
Dan: you believe that?
Brian: : I can't believe he doesn't, because the next time will be worse.
Brian: : I thought the last 5 minutes could have been put into like a dozen pro-Bush commercials with like 5 seconds of editing.
Dan: Then why wouldn't you want someone in office who won't put corporations before American lives,
Dan: someone who doesn't stand to benifit?
Brian: : Corporations are people too, Daniel.
Brian: : But seriously, every politician is bought.
Brian: : It requires a more serious link.
Brian: : You proved how Governor Kean is involved with the Saudi bin Ladens. Do you believe he was culpable in covering up mass murder?
Dan: well if you walked away feeling a stronger republican, I walked away a stronger democrat
Brian: : I thought it was a cheap stunt with what he did to the mother.
Brian: : I thought alot of it was unsubstantiated.
Brian: : I thought the sound track was magnificent.
Dan: and I think she wanted her story out there
Dan: thats my philosophy with film
Dan: sound is 80% of the film
Brian: : She wanted her story out there.
Brian: : Maybe.
Brian: : Who knows?
Brian: : The letter is when I knew it was a stunt.
Brian: : ...and that George Bush W idiot...
Dan: why do you think Speilberg sticks with Williams
Dan: you think it was faked?
Brian: : We're all classicists at heart :)
Brian: : It told you everything you wanted to hear.
Brian: : My cousin, the liberal democrat, was floored by it.
Dan: so what is so upsetting to you about a soldier who wanted to let out his anger at why he was there with his mother
Dan: he liked it,
Dan: or hated it?
Brian: : He hated the mother thing, thought it was a stunt.
Brian: : Considering what Moore does in past movies, you know it's a stunt.
Dan: i say bs.
Dan: she was no actor,
Brian: : Ever see Roger and Me?
Dan: long time ago
Brian: : No, she was selected from 1 out of ~800.
Dan: in hebrew school
Dan: who happened to be from the same town as Moore?
Brian: : Flint?
Dan: thats where she was frim
Dan: she worked at the unemployment office there
Brian: : He had a man like me call her and ask for a few moments of her time to talk about an article he saw in the Flint Free Press.
Dan: why does your coz think its a stunt again?
Dan: i still don't see it
Brian: : He thinks that it was set up with too overt a political agenda and it was used bluntly.
Dan: that was the point
Dan: read Binart's peice in TNR about being overly bi-partisan
Dan: it gets you nowhere.
Brian: : Do you think Clinton agrees?
Dan: probably not
Brian: : Or FDR?
Brian: : Or LBJ?
Brian: : Or Reagan?
Dan: they all were partisan at one point
Dan: thats why they were part of a party
Brian: : The great legislative achievements of our time - whether I like them or not, were done with overwhelming bipartisan support.
Brian: : Reagan loved Tip O'Neill
Dan: we were so bipartisan over this war, and thats why we're in this mess today
Dan: its even in the film
Dan: when daschle supports the Iraq war
Brian: : Yes.
Brian: : Ahead of the 2002 elections.
Dan: we tried to be bi-partisan
Brian: : Thus you were presented with me and me, too.
Dan: we tried to trust you guys
Dan: and you failed us
Brian: : I didn't fail you.
Dan: you lied to us
Brian: : The Republican leadership beat the Democrats.
Dan: now we have to deal with it
Brian: : You make it seem like this is an existential threat to the American Republic.
Dan: and I'd rather it be John Kerry to do it frankly.
Brian: : You seem caught up in the wave of fear.
Dan: its an existential threat to our standing in the world
Dan: its isolationism flipped inside out, this new policy
Brian: : It's neoimperialism.
Brian: : Except we're closing bases in Europe and NE Asia.
Brian: : Did you ever wonder, at night, who was left standing?
Dan: our integrity sure wasn't
Brian: : No, I meant amongst the great powers.
Dan: you mean at the end of the cold war?
Brian: : No, I mean today.
Brian: : Which powers are left?
Dan: you tell me how big of a power Saddam was
Dan: right before the war
Brian: : Above Saudi, the GCC and below Iran, Turkey and Israel
Dan: how could you honestly go against the quotes made by colin powel and rice in 2001 about saddam with "no weapons" and "a deteriorating regime"
Dan: it was all a facade
Dan: thats what the makup at the beginning of the movie meant
Brian: : How do you reconcile that with what Clinton did?
Dan: in regards to?
Brian: : Bombing the shit out of Iraq in '98
Brian: : Saying there was a link between Iraq and Saddam
Dan: you mean bin ladin?
Brian: : No! lol yes
Dan: those were the only grounds for bombing iraq?
Brian: : There were alot.
Dan: i was only 12, but if i do remember correctly, we bombed iraq because of no-fly zones violations
Dan: and that is REALLY jogging my memory
Dan: from when I was 12
Brian: : we had to deal with iraq's WMD program
Dan: Israel did that
Dan: but yes, i do remember something about bio-chemi
Brian: : Go look it up. We recycled Clinton's allegations and added Zawaqiri (sp.)
Dan: but it seems as though those days were gone by 2003
Dan: the lesson learned
Dan: good for Clinton, bad for Bush
Brian: : Do you think Saddam got rid of his systems?
Dan: you mean launch systems
Dan: or delivery systems
Dan: or actual weapons-grade materials
Dan: which one was actually there?
Brian: : We found WMD.
Brian: : a while ago
Brian: : No...
Brian: : Iraq
Dan: apparently he did
Dan: one way or another
Brian: : One moment
Brian: : Check regressivedecision, post#2
Dan: what about it
Dan: it cuts off
Brian: : The New York Times
Brian: : post
Brian: : http://regressivedecision.blogspot.com/2004/06/saddam-bin-laden-links-found-new-york.html
Dan: and 10 years before that WE were helping Usama
Brian: : No.
Brian: : That's wrong.
Brian: : Really really wrong.
Dan: its a decade old reason
Dan: give it a rest
Dan: no current ties
Dan: no connection
Dan: enemy of my enemy is my friend
Brian: : http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/hizbi-islami.htm
Dan: type thing
Dan: and we fed our supplies and resources through pakistan
Dan: fas fails to report that
Brian: : That was the Party that got virtually everything.
Brian: : I recommend Charlie Wilson's War.
Brian: : It shows the good ol' days when Democrats had spine, the South.
Dan: we still do have spine
Dan: the boss
Brian: : Oh really?
Brian: : 100%
T/F Is Iraq a quagmire?
Dan: define quagmire
Dan: remember who taught me modern US history
Brian: : Think of Vietnam, Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket
Dan: you mean no moral reason for why our soldiers are dying
Dan: you mean terrible mistake in geopolitics
Brian: : Why is it a terrible mistake?
Brian: : No
Brian: : No
Brian: : Why was attacking and suborning Iraq a mistake?
Dan: "the Bush administration accepts anti-Americanism as a compliment"
Brian: : We are rationalizing our defense priorities with a new war. I understand that, as a function of your religion, you would support keeping the Germans down forever - but it does not match our new agenda.
Dan: i support engaging with the germans instead of shirking off their input
Brian: : Of?
Dan: globalization is deteriorating our superpower status, and a united europe could overtake us
Brian: : Have they stopped giving us feeds at Interpol?
Brian: : Have they closed Ramstein?
Brian: : The Bundeswehr is shot to hell.
Brian: : It's still a partial-conscript force.
Dan: look at the broad picture
Brian: : Look at the broad picture. Let's go for the remote corners of this planet - the Straits of Malacca.
Dan: shirking Europe will exclude us from the collaberative nations
Brian: : We just signed a deal with Singapore to sweep pirates out of the way.
Dan: we don't want that
Brian: : America is recentering on our priorities - Europe is not a priority.
Brian: : Europe is a collapsing entity.
Brian: : Every index shows a Europe in meltdown.
Dan: im so tired
Brian: : I mean not just we can fix it meltdown - like Europe ex-Luxembourg is so fucking poor.
Brian: : They are poorer than Bama!
Brian: : They are poor, unemployed, looking for past glory and pursuing nuclear weapons.
Brian: : Britain is about to destroy the EU.
Brian: : Stick to Milton Friedman.
Brian: : He says the Euro will be the greatest monetary disaster of our time.
Brian: : If Europe doubled their defense spending, they still wouldn't match America.
Brian: : They are too far behind.
Brian: : And this isn't the time where we can dig for salt-peter. It's industries and subcontractors...
Brian: : You saw it in part today.
Brian: : United Defense isn't European. It's American.
Brian: : Go to bed, young one.
Dan: (2:46:52 AM): i'm tired
Dan: (2:47:11 AM): i can see we have opposing views on foriegn policy
Dan: (2:47:45 AM): yours grounded on present situation, mine floating on speculation
Dan: (2:48:03 AM): but at least I'll admit that.
Brian: (2:48:10 AM): i cant take the prospect that you're right
Brian: (2:48:15 AM): because then we're facing the entire world alone
Dan: (2:48:44 AM): just read wieseltier's article about iso=uni
Dan: (2:48:52 AM): its interesting, thats all
Dan: (2:49:11 AM): http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040628&s=wieseltier062804
Dan: (2:49:15 AM): its not restricted
Brian: (2:49:22 AM): k
Brian: (2:49:58 AM): I would not have supported this war.
Brian: (2:50:02 AM): Have you ever seen the pictures?
Dan: (2:50:26 AM): just read
Dan: (2:50:30 AM): bypass the rhetoric
Dan: (2:50:35 AM): get to the juice
Brian: (2:50:36 AM): You're a Jew, you should see this.
Brian: (2:50:45 AM): Same reason I, a Pole, should
Dan: (2:50:45 AM): im going to sleep
Brian: (2:50:49 AM): Wait
Brian: (2:51:16 AM): http://massgraves.info/
Brian: (2:52:22 AM): We cannot fight Islamic radicalism, I mean militarily, without creating Islamic radicalism.
Brian: (2:52:30 AM): We cannot fight German radicalism, I mean militarily, without creating German radicalism.
Dan: (2:53:17 AM): germany is a country
Dan: (2:53:21 AM): islam is a religion
Brian: (2:53:25 AM): Not always.
Brian: (2:53:28 AM): We both know that.
Dan: (2:53:29 AM): a people beyond one border
Brian: (2:53:48 AM): At our expense, Germany was not a country but a messianistic spirit that wanted to subjugate most of the world.
Dan: (2:53:51 AM): think about it
Dan: (2:53:53 AM): 911
Dan: (2:53:57 AM): we were attacked
Dan: (2:54:04 AM): what did the western countries say?
Brian: (2:54:12 AM): Why do you care what they say?
Dan: (2:54:12 AM): "were all americans!"
Brian: (2:54:16 AM): Why not care what they do?
Brian: (2:54:26 AM): THE TALIBAN SENT US CONDOLENCES
Brian: (2:54:27 AM): lol
Dan: (2:54:35 AM): THERE ARE FRENCH AND GERMAN FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN
Brian: (2:54:40 AM): Good for them.
Brian: (2:54:43 AM): I thank them for it.
Dan: (2:54:45 AM): they fought the war on terrorism
Dan: (2:54:50 AM): not our stupid perversion
Brian: (2:54:59 AM): I don't believe stupid is the right word.
Dan: (2:55:04 AM): irresponsibl
Brian: (2:55:07 AM): But tell me, how much power does Iraq have in the Arab World?
Dan: (2:55:08 AM): unilateral
Dan: (2:55:15 AM): reckless
Brian: (2:55:17 AM): What is the center of the Arab world, of the Middle East and Central Asia?
Dan: (2:55:20 AM): unforseeing
Brian: (2:55:24 AM): It's not reckless - it's premediated.
Dan: (2:55:35 AM): premeditated recklessness
Dan: (2:55:39 AM): lol
Dan: (2:55:44 AM): oxymoron
Brian: (2:55:44 AM): Lebanon, 1980
Dan: (2:55:50 AM): but its so true
Dan: (2:56:01 AM): Zanzibar 1913
Brian: (2:56:13 AM): What?
Brian: (2:56:14 AM): lol
Dan: (2:56:26 AM): lol
Brian: (2:56:34 AM): We picked the fricking center smack dab of the Arab World.
Brian: (2:56:38 AM): Everything rotates around Baghdad.
Dan: (2:56:46 AM): bullshit
Brian: (2:56:54 AM): What other Arab country has that gravity?
Dan: (2:56:58 AM): SA
Brian: (2:57:10 AM): All on a base of 20 million people, most in the desert?
Brian: (2:57:24 AM): No, they got oil and Allah but that doesn't give them the sustainability for delusions of power.
Dan: (2:57:46 AM): which is why they have gone to terror!
Dan: (2:57:53 AM): and perverted their allah
Brian: (2:57:59 AM): Well, it's not a perversion of their Allah.
Brian: (2:58:03 AM): It's old-skool.
Brian: (2:58:03 AM): llol
Dan: (2:58:06 AM): ok
Dan: (2:58:07 AM): fine
Dan: (2:58:12 AM): hudna style
Brian: (2:58:16 AM): Bingo
Dan: (2:58:19 AM): skeet skeet
Dan: (2:58:22 AM): lol
Brian: (2:58:26 AM): My goodness.
Brian: (2:58:32 AM): With Iraq, we can pressure Saudi Arabia in a way we could not before.
Dan: (2:58:35 AM): think of congo, 1411
Brian: (2:58:42 AM): Their oil resources are majority-Shi'a in Saudi Arabia.
Dan: (2:58:54 AM): skeet skeet skeet
Brian: (2:58:56 AM): If we can create a responsible Shi'a Government, we can encourage the demise of the House of Saud.
Brian: (2:58:58 AM): But is that the goal?
Dan: (2:59:03 AM): my uncle told me a great story
Dan: (2:59:05 AM): the other day
Brian: (2:59:06 AM): Dr. Gottlieb thought it was.
Brian: (2:59:07 AM): Do tell.
Dan: (2:59:30 AM): he told me of this time when he was in LA, south central, where my mother and him grew up
Dan: (2:59:36 AM): visiting his old home
Dan: (3:00:11 AM): and as he was walking from their old house to their school, some guy comes up to him in a dashiki robe, and a big hat
Dan: (3:00:27 AM): pulls out a 2 foot blade, and says...
Dan: (3:00:48 AM): "If this was the markets of Zanzibar, you'd be dead by now"
Brian: (3:00:56 AM): lol
Dan: (3:01:06 AM): so my uncle just walks on like nothing happened,
Dan: (3:01:13 AM): he gets about a block away
Dan: (3:01:26 AM): turns around, and the guy is still there looking at him with his blade in the air
Dan: (3:01:43 AM): probably the best story ive ever heard
Brian: (3:01:49 AM): It's very good.
Brian: (3:01:54 AM): They think that French is funny.
Brian: (3:01:59 AM): (1) lol
Brian: (3:02:05 AM): (2) France is done for.
Brian: (3:02:20 AM): You heard about the Israeli Minister for Overseas Jewry, right?
Brian: (3:02:32 AM): He drew up plans to handle 200 000 French Jews in a mass exodus.
Dan: (3:03:03 AM): nice
Dan: (3:03:06 AM): im going to sleep
Dan: (3:03:12 AM): soo tired
Brian: (3:03:18 AM): wait
Dan: (3:03:23 AM): but thanks for keeping my feet on the ground
Brian: (3:03:25 AM): 1 more second
Brian: (3:03:31 AM): Go here
Dan: (3:03:33 AM): no i cant even keep my eyes closed
Brian: (3:03:38 AM): Of course not
Brian: (3:03:41 AM): Jerusalem - The Jewish Agency is bracing itself for the immigration of tens of thousands French Jews into Israel as a result of a growing anti-Semitism in France, a spokesperson for the organisation said on Sunday. ...
Brian: (3:03:43 AM): 30000?
Brian: (3:03:51 AM): I saw 200 000...
Brian: (3:03:57 AM): Vatikai said that a report compiled by the agency had found 30 000 out of France's 575 000-strong Jewish community were considering immigrating to Israel. ...
French Justice Minister Dominique Perben said last week that 180 anti-Jewish acts had been recorded so far this year, including cases of assault, arson and verbal insults. ...
Vatikai said the situation for French Jews was becoming increasingly "difficult".
Brian: (3:04:02 AM): I saw in another article 200 000.
Brian: (3:04:08 AM): Maybe thats how bad they thought.
Brian: (3:04:09 AM): Go tobed.
Dan: (3:04:11 AM): yup
Dan: (3:04:18 AM): bad french
Dan: (3:04:29 AM): bad europe
Brian: (3:04:35 AM): God bless America.
Dan: (3:04:39 AM): bad muslims
Dan: (3:04:45 AM): bad christians
Brian: (3:04:52 AM): Because if you're right about Kristalnacht, it will be where it started...
Dan: (3:04:54 AM): we're better off alone, in israel
Brian: (3:05:00 AM): Not alone.
Brian: (3:05:03 AM): But you get the idea.
Dan: (3:05:03 AM): we'll surely win our war alone
Brian: (3:05:10 AM): Enough nukes, sure.
Dan: (3:05:17 AM): who will support Israel in america if we all left
Brian: (3:05:24 AM): The Christian right.
Dan: (3:05:25 AM): noone
Dan: (3:05:35 AM): there's no constituancy
Brian: (3:05:48 AM): Ever ask a Republican about this?
Dan: (3:06:07 AM): i need sleep
Dan: (3:06:09 AM): email me
Brian: (3:06:11 AM): Ask a Republican
Brian: (3:06:13 AM): Go to bed.
Dan: (3:06:14 AM): ok
Dan: (3:06:16 AM): will do